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Before some of you waste your money on overpriced cabling, here's some educational reading...
bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm
www.audioholics.com/techtips...ables.htm
I work in this industry, and I know what makes a good cable. I'm sick of seeing people getting ripped off by companies selling so-called "audiophile" quality cable at horrendously high prices. To be truthful, there is no true "audiophile" quality standard. It's a buzzword that these companies use to inflate thier claims and pricing around.
A prime example...An unamed company was selling 24K gold tipped "audiophile" optical cables at over $250 per meter. Can you see what is wrong with this picture? First of all, 90% of the fiber optic cable on the market is exactly the same stuff, and secondly - gold tipped optical cables ? Are you shitting me? Gold is used as a conductor...OPTICAL CABLES USE LIGHT!!!
bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm
www.audioholics.com/techtips...ables.htm
I work in this industry, and I know what makes a good cable. I'm sick of seeing people getting ripped off by companies selling so-called "audiophile" quality cable at horrendously high prices. To be truthful, there is no true "audiophile" quality standard. It's a buzzword that these companies use to inflate thier claims and pricing around.
A prime example...An unamed company was selling 24K gold tipped "audiophile" optical cables at over $250 per meter. Can you see what is wrong with this picture? First of all, 90% of the fiber optic cable on the market is exactly the same stuff, and secondly - gold tipped optical cables ? Are you shitting me? Gold is used as a conductor...OPTICAL CABLES USE LIGHT!!!
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 1:37 AMI enjoy good sound but cables and other snake oil tires me. You ever hear of mpingo discs?
I own a lot of blue jeans cable. -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 7:39 AMNo I have not...what are they?
BTW, I work for Blue Jeans Cable. -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 9:00 AM
My favorite is "directional" audio cable. You know, that special cable optimized to send electricity in a particular direction?
Seriously, companies have marketed it.
-troy
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 9:47 AMi agree that there's a lot of hype around certain cables and interconnects. the best thing to do is listen to them on your system, because there is no doubt that people (myself included) can hear differences in cables and interconnects. some are brighter, softer, harsher, etc.. and they do change over time as they conditioned, but then again so does your amp as it warms up and your speakers as they get broken in. if you doubt this well maybe your just not hearing it. some people just don't hear the difference and even prefer the sound from a hifi system bought at circuit city.
so what i'm trying to say is that there's a lot of subjectivity, independent of what any tests can measure...it's what you hear and what you like ;)
this said, i was a skeptic of such things as directional cables until i had the following experience.
i had been given for free some high end directional speaker cables. i set them up between my maggie mg3's and my bryston amps and was very happy with them for a couple of years. then one day i had a problem with my speakers so i sent them in to get serviced and i rented some other speakers for the month my beloved maggies were away.
at the time i was using the ext passive x-over for the maggies and was using several very short 1ft) sections of this high end wire, which i disconnected for the rented speakers.
when i got my maggies back i reconnected them and spent 2 days going crazy because i couldn't get them to sound balanced. for those of you unfamiliar with these speakers, location and placement are critical.
finally exasperated i decided to disconnect everything and reconnect, to discover that one of my short directional cables was in the wrong direction. incredulous, i flipped it and my maggies sounded heavenly again. the moral of this story...
just 'cause you can't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
test it out. have a friend switch things for you and if you can hear the difference then you'll believe otherwise save the money and spend it on something else.
oh, and when my friend gifted me with silver speaker cables....ooh the soundstage improved, and... my powered digital cable between my cd transport and my anti-jitter device is superior to anything i have ever heard..
and maybe i'm fooling myself but who cares i love my 'audiophile' sound system and ... that's what audiophile means right? well isn't that what really matters?
one last thing...
few people are super tasters, genetically that is, and they can become enologists, others are very happy with 2 buck chuck, ot gallo wine which produces more wine each year than the entire country of italy
few have super smell and they create perfumes, others are happy with the stuff you can get a savon...
few people are olympic athletes, most are not..
few people can survive at the summit of mnt. everest without 02..most would die
get the picture?
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 12:49 PM"BTW, I work for Blue Jeans Cable"
thanks for cueing us into your conflict of interest.
Hey, all I gotta say about cables, like all other gear, you gotta test them out for yourself.
As per the science, a lot of what it boils down to is phase response. Your ear can sense incredibly small discrepencies in timing inaccuracies. These inaccuracies in addition to collapsing the stereo field also create comb filters. Every circuit is a capacitor. Capicitors are used in filtering/eqing. Does it not make sense to tune the circuit so that this filtering effect has a minimum impact?
Now, there are folks around these parts who want to tell me that high bandwidth MP3 files sound just as good as native, uncompressed CDs. Great. Enjoy your zipcord speaker wire as well. Me, I'm gonna stick with my Monacle XL. -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 2, 2005 - 1:13 PMthis audiophile thing can be a curse on your bank account and your listening satisfaction, oh to be thrilled with the quality of am station on a small speaker from radio shack ..hehe.. :)
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Sun, November 6, 2005 - 7:21 PMI don't think that there is a conflict of interest..., I'm just hoping folks aren't getting ripped off by inferior product in a fancy package.
Sound is a VERY subjective thing...maybe I should say GOOD SOUND. Being a professional audio engineer, I've witnessed far too many times the "placebo" effect of a supposedly better cabling among other things. For example, I "sweetened" a track for a particularly snooty client by turning an aux that was hooked up to NOTHING, and they swore that it sounded much better. Another time, a el-cheapo cable was swapped out with an expensive cable (whose brand shall go unsaid) in a blind test, and several people thought the cheap one sounded far superior.
The THX mix theater I worked in at Post Magic Studios in Orlando used Belden cable (btw - I have NO affiliation with Belden, I just like thier product). That's actually a very good thing to consider - look at what the professional mastering studios use in their systems.
I'm not telling anyone to buy the cables I make from the company I work for - I just want folks to know it's not really necessary to spend $$$ on a 6 ft stereo pair.
Here's a quick little clip to finish my point...
Interestingly, the New Scientists recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:
"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine
(taken from www.audioholics.com/techtips...ak-in.php ) -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Mon, November 7, 2005 - 3:25 PMwhen my roomate helped to rewire glassworks in NYC (yeah, I've got an AE background as well) they just bouight spools of so so cable and decent connectors and soldered all the runs by hand. Was this done for audio reasons? No. Cost, plain and simple. This is the case in most sudio wiring. It would be unaffordable to do hundreds of runs in boutique cable. So, to make anecdotal mention of what is used in various recording studios is of no import.
In the end, trust your ears. -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Tue, November 8, 2005 - 10:07 PMYes it is important...Mastering takes listening skills far beyond what many "audiophiles" will ever have. Do realize that we test many of these so-called boutique cables in controlled environments, and they don't perform any better than the "non-boutique" brands.
When you're doing your critical listening, are you taking the Fletcher Munson curve into consideration? 60dB will sound different than 90dB (not just in volume).
Yes, I think your ears will be the final judge for your own tastes, but to discount the fact that a less expensive cable just might sound as good (or - God forbid - BETTER)compared to a boutique cable is ludicrous. Another thing, when the studio I work in (THX certified mixing theater with a $1,000,000 SSL Axiom, Pro Tools HD3 among other goodies) was being wired, cost wasn't the issue - QUALITY was. It was not a mere anecdotal mention...and if they couldn't afford spools of anything more than "so-so" cable to rewire the studio, then that's a studio in trouble.
Find specs on the cable you use - compare - listen in controlled environments. Find a happy medium between K-Mart cable and the $500 a meter BS. Expensive does not necessarily mean better.
Then again, feel free to piss away thousands... -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 11:37 AM
Personally, i think the materials and dimensions of your listening room are about a 20 times more important than your interconnects when trying to get audiophile quality sound.
-troy -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 1:25 PM'Personally, i think the materials and dimensions of your listening room are about a 20 times more important than your interconnects when trying to get audiophile quality sound. '
it all counts. i can hear a difference in my system when the humidity is up to 90% vs say 10% hot cold, the number of people in the room background noise,etc. more me it's about optimizing the sound the best i can based on what my senses tell me, how it sounds, how it feels, the intensity of the visuals...the entire experience.
i have a room dedicated to listening to music. this is necesary with certain speakers like me magnapans..they cannot be hidden behind the couch..they determine the placement of everything else in the room...anyway... hehe.
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 11:47 AM"Fletcher Munson curve into consideration?"
of course. If my rig doesn't sound good at low levels something is wrong. I also go so far as to not have recently eaten or had anything to drink as that rolls of your high end. Yeah, I'm a tool.
cable A costs less than cable A. Can cable A perform better than cable B? Absolutely. Can zip cord out perform transparent, harmonic tech or kimber in a speaker run? Not in this lifetime.
As per pissing away thousands, back when I was an under paid audio guy I certainly got bent about what I perceived as wasteful spending on gear. Now that I've got a bit more green and have shrugged off the starving artist persona I am free to realize that sometimes, not everytime but sometimes the pricier goods are the better goods. No kid in a civic with a big tailpipe is ever going to convince me his rice rocket will lap a 911 turbo on the nurburgring no matter how big of a fiber glass park bench he has bolted to the trunk. Still, hold on to whatever makes you happy. As per listening in controlled environments, these days the only environment that matters to me is the one in front of my couch. I also lost my kneejerk respect for what studios use when I kept seeing the same piece of shit nearfield monitors being employed in nearly every joint in NYC. -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 12:45 PM"back when I was an under paid audio guy"
I hope you're not thinking that my income is skewing my views...Money is not an issue for me.
Yeah, zipcord sucks, but I never brought up zipcord in any of my posts until now.
And if you look around, there is a TON of overpriced, underperforming crap out there. With your extensive audio background, you can't deny it.
I'm only talking about the overpriced crap. There are prices you NEED to pay for certain quality levels, but a gold plated optical cable for $300?
If anyone bought it, they deserve to waste their money and shouldn't be allowede to use sharp scissors... -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 4:00 PM"I'm only talking about the overpriced crap."
what do you think is overpriced for a 3M speaker run? -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 11:04 PMwww.tweekgeek.com/product.asp
$375 for 3 meters
www.pranawire.com/cosmos.htm
$3350 per meter
hcmaudio.com/comp.asp
$7,250 for 10'
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 11:23 PMAlso, I don't have a "kneejerk" respect for anything...especially those who those types of attitudes toward others...
I'm not underpaid...I'm sorry you were.
The only thing I'm "bent" about is that there are manufacturers out there preying on folks who DON'T have audio backgrounds, who sell snake oil, and charge insane prices for products that don't really deliver....
Too many people with $$ to burn think that "more expensive = better".
I'm only trying to point out that that is not always the case.
If you think I'm full of it, that means that you believe that a $150 3 foot plastic fiber optic cable will work better than a $40 plastic fiber optic cable every time...
Did you know that one of the companies that supplies Radio Shack with optical cable also sells the exact same stuff (packaged differently, of course) to some "boutique" resellers?
Trust me, I know the A/V cable industry. I'm in the thick of it everyday. The waters are full of sharks, and if you don't believe it, you deserve evry dollar down the drain.
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Thu, November 10, 2005 - 4:38 PMI think you are laying out a false dichotomy and putting words in my mouth. I would never make a claim that there aren't products in any market that are made and marketed to suckers. An H2, a GMC Yukon with different sheet metal, comes blaringly to mind. This in no way refutes the fact that there are expensive things in niche markets whose quality is reflected in the price. I'm glad you make good money. We all should. I hope that you enjoy it as well. An optical with a gold tip: rediculous. The idea that digital is digital and as such cables won't make a difference in errors: also rediculous.
I paid around $600 for my speaker runs. Call me a jackass if you want but they make me happy and that's what I am here for. I'll take that state of mind any day.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: cables and interconnects...
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 11:50 PM"Re: cables and interconnects...
www.tweekgeek.com/product.asp
$375 for 3 meters
www.pranawire.com/cosmos.htm
$3350 per meter
hcmaudio.com/comp.asp
$7,250 for 10' "
wow i'd love to actually hear them and compare and contrast...what a fun afternoon! know what i mean? -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Thu, November 10, 2005 - 12:31 PM
Rafaelo, are you serious.. or joking.. I can't tell.
If your serious, damn, I really need to get into this high-end cable scam.. I mean business.
"Hand-soldered by virgin Japanese girls who adhere to a strict diet of non-toxic chemicals. Copper hand-mined from an environmentally sensative mine in China."
-troy -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Thu, November 10, 2005 - 1:06 PMi am an audiophile - i love listening to music and love the echnology behind it.
that said i'm not about to buy them but what fun to go listen and compare and contrast for myself.
i love going into high end shops and listening to what they got--i also love to test drive new performance cars - just window shopping and test driving :) -
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Re: cables and interconnects...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 11:45 AM
Have you heard any of the new DVD-based audio disk standards? That would be fun to test drive...
-troy
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